SPEAKER_01: 0:12

And I'd love to start Judy. You know, both of us uh have been impacted by our parents. Um, you know, positive and and negative stories for me and for you. So much of who you are came from, you know, the burn that was instilled in you from watching how your parents showed showed up in life. Can you share a little bit about how your your passion and your drive came from watching your parents?

SPEAKER_00: 0:37

Yeah, um, you know, it's it's interesting you brought that up, and um, today's the anniversary of my mom's passing, and uh it was back in 1997, so it's been a long time. But my mom, like your mom, had you know some health issues growing up. Uh, my dad was a blue-collar worker, um, worked on floating cranes on the waterfront. Um, they were both adamant, my mom in particular, that my sister and I focus on education, uh, even though they never went to college, focused on us going to college. That was not a negotiation point. And um, you know, I watched my dad work so hard, come home at night, hands, feet cracked open from working in the cold and the winter, and just this discipline of showing up all the time. My mom, when she was not feeling well, in and out of the hospital, always showing up and instilling in us to be better and to do more. I don't think anybody envisioned that I would go to law school. Um, that that in fact, when I when I thought about going to law school, which was a second career for me, I had been a trainer and a coach. And after five knee surgeries, I realized, well, you know, you better get a sit-down job. And uh so I went to law school, had no idea what I was doing in the in the application process, but honestly, I could not even say those words out loud. I want to be a lawyer, I want to go to law school. It just wasn't something I felt that, you know, we did, we as a family growing up in Brooklyn, that we did this kind of thing. And then for some reason, I just I just did it. But, you know, thinking back on all the sacrifices my parents, um, my grandparents made for me and my sister, and you know, that consistency of just showing up, showing up, showing up. And um, that's what drives me to this very day. It's part, it's the dedication in my book. It's that blue-collar work ethic that I brought to the practice of law that I think has served me very well.

SPEAKER_01: 2:48

And that blue-collar work ethic, it's really turned into not just your legal career, but what I've always respected as I continue to learn more and more and more about you and your success was you always doing things to challenge yourself personally and professionally. And I'd love to touch on that. And, you know, it's something that, you know, you don't really highlight in the book is one of the untold secrets. But I would argue that I believe that is one of your untold secrets for success for anybody, not just young attorneys, not just an attorney who's getting ready to become a partner, or veteran attorneys that are now turning to you for consulting advice to say, hey, Judy, what was it in 34 years that I'm not paying attention to that I need to pay attention to? But whether it be running and training and challenging yourself, how important was it for you to continue to challenge yourself personally to have a clear mind to become the attorney that you were?

SPEAKER_00: 3:44

Yeah, absolutely critical. You know, when you and it's not just attorneys, but a lot of professionals, but there are very, very disturbing statistics that are uh relevant just to attorneys of not handling the pressure well, not um, you know, turning to certain ways of dealing with the stress of being a lawyer through alcohol or other kind of bad behaviors, or um just not dealing with the stress, having emotional blow ups and uh, you know, being in the in the fetal position on their office floor. Um, so I always found that uh two things really, really helped me. Um exercise, which I may have overdone a time or two over the years, but you know, exercise like early morning, you know, part of that 5 a.m. gym group, and um and uh personal development, you know, which is how I found you. Um learning how to talk to yourself in the right way, learning um, you know, how to how how to have a a bigger perspective on on life, little things I say to myself all the time, you know, uh don't go through your day looking for things to be offended by, and you know, uh working gratitude into your into like your daily practice. Uh things like that are are really, really important. And having some structure around what you're doing every day, things you can control. So for me, I'm pretty well known in my geeky cyber insurance world for uh being active and providing content on LinkedIn. And so it's just a matter of every single morning. I get up at some crazy hour, I won't even talk about it. And um, just popping online and doing some research with the mindset of will this add value to my audience, to my clients, people like that. So I think bringing that mindset of adding value, being of service, always been so important to me, approaching my relationships with my clients and even people who are not my clients, but maybe someday they'll be a client as a relationship instead of a transaction. And with a with with a thought always in mind, how do I make their job easier? How do I make their life easier? So these are kind of the things that I've incorporated in my life. And I think when you take that spotlight off yourself and adopt some of the good practices around managing stress and and um and all the anxiety that comes with uh uh being a professional today, those things have served me well over all these years.

SPEAKER_01: 6:32

This episode of The Burn is brought to you by our dear friends and partners at Q Logics. Now, you know I don't co-sign things I don't believe in, and I believe in John Chiarando and the team at Q Logics. He's built multiple nine-figure businesses, real integrity, real character, the kind of guy you want in your corner. But here's what happened: all that expertise, all that knowledge, it was just his. Locked in his head, his decisions, his team, you couldn't access it. So John created Q-Logics. He basically said, How do I make everything I've built available to people who actually need it? Here's what that looks like. Q Logics helps you see the blind spots in your business, the gaps you don't even know you have. You don't know what you don't know. They're your tour guide through that. Q Logics helps you build systems that make your business work better or they ask better questions so you're approaching it in the most effective way. And Q Logic has access to a network of businesses and resources, real connections, real synergies that can accelerate what you're building. If any of that resonates, go to Qyphon Logics, L-O-G-I-X.com forward slash Ben. Fill out a form. Their team will research your situation personally, then they'll tell you straight can they actually help? Thank you to our friends and partners at Q Logics. Make sure you find out more about Q Logics and your opportunity to win more with them today. So your blue-collar work ethic that burned that fire from your parents, you then making a choice to be disciplined beyond just your work, you choosing to not skip those steps. What would you say is your your favorite untold story without giving away the book? Or maybe is there an untold story you'd love to share that you don't share in the book?

SPEAKER_00: 8:16

Well, I have so I have some favorite stories from the book. And um one of them was very, very early in my career, and it was with um my my the most impactful mentor. I've been blessed with mentors over the years, uh, whether they knew they were mentoring me or not. Uh some great people that I worked with, and one who recently passed away, his name is Doug Hauser, but it was early one Monday morning, and I was walking down the hallway of the office, and uh he and I just kind of crossed paths and he said, Morning, Judy. And I said, Um, morning, Judy. He goes, How are you doing? I said, I'm great, how are you? And he stopped right there and he said, That's why I love working with you. That's why I want you on my team, because you're so upbeat and you're passionate. And that's just kind of my way, anyway. It wasn't contrived. But what a lesson that I learned. Here's somebody who's a named partner at a massive law firm, tons of responsibility. And uh what he's looking for is somebody to work with who doesn't say, oh, yeah, another Monday, you know, you can't wait till Friday. You know, um, he's looking for somebody to match. The reason he was successful in part was his level of enthusiasm and positivity and energy that he brought to the workplace. And that's what he was looking for in people that he worked with. As I became a more senior lawyer and started hiring, um, interviewing and hiring hundreds and hundreds of lawyers over the years, I came to see how critically important that is. And so that was a that's one of my favorite stories. It's such a small, small lesson in the book, but uh, or you know, but it to me it was very, very impactful in how I approach my career and how I approach it every single day and every interaction with other people.

SPEAKER_01: 10:14

We may not just find you at legal conference conventions around the world. It it might be the need for individuals like you, because of your experience and knowledge, to help organizations grow in many different ways.

SPEAKER_00: 10:26

Well, you know, I'm at that stage of my career, which was, you know, kind of the impetus for making the change, is I'm at the impact stage now. And I've and you know, it's funny because one of the hardest parts about making the decision was, you know, the impact that I had and valued with my law firm clients. Um, but I think I can have a bigger impact here. You know, my mission is to impact more than a million professionals by the end of next year. And so any way to do that, I've been blessed with tremendous opportunities and experiences over the past 34 years. And uh to be able to, you know, add value to people's lives in any way, you know, that you know, that would be helpful to them, I'm certainly open to doing that.

SPEAKER_01: 11:16

You know, for all of you listening, uh, I think it it's important that you share this episode. And here's here's why I'm gonna say this for many reasons. Number one, you hear me say depth over width a lot. Um, but if you pay attention to the relationship that Judy and I have built, there's there's a lot of of deep conversations we've had and growth and leaning in and challenge. And it's a relationship that I look forward to every interaction that we have, whether it be a text message or a Zoom call or an in-person event. It's just been wonderful. Um, but the other thing I want you to pay attention to is Judy's success and not skipping those steps. And I think we live in this world where everybody wants success overnight. And people have heard me say it so many times long obedience in the same direction with aggressive patience. And some of Judy's biggest, best awards and the fortune and Forbes and Reuters and all the recognition. A lot of that stuff happens towards the end of your career. She was recognized throughout her entire career, but a lot of these big awards was a culmination of receiving them before she made her transition. Everybody wants that quick success, but it's a commitment to doing things over long periods of time that give you that platform to create those next stages of impact. So I'd love for you to share this episode with somebody who maybe needs to slow down. Maybe somebody who needs to put that phone in their pocket and have that real interaction with somebody in a Starbucks. I love that, Judy, because those are the things I think far too many people miss on the road to success these days. And I firmly believe our younger generations, the ones who can communicate, the ones who can put a sentence together, the ones who can make eye contact, the ones who can shake a hand, and the ones who can stand. If you listen to what Judy said, stand in a waiting room and not have to fidget and talk to people, those are the ones who are going to win at the highest level.

SPEAKER_02: 13:19

The level of success that you've had. Yeah. It's our show, The Burn. You know, seven years of episodes of these powerful stories. So what is it for you, right? What is it? What's made you resilient? What's caused you to fight? Because the level of you've performed at, there's no way it's been easy.

SPEAKER_03: 13:33

Yeah, there's not. I feel like I've I've transmuted my parents' childhood and their pain and their struggle to make them proud. You said that today. That um, you know, they grew up, both of them, with uh single parents. My mom's mom died young, similar to yours. My dad's father left him. There was a lot of stuff that they endured and suffered. And so there was an intensity in my household growing up that we are gonna fight and we are gonna be champions, and we are gonna overcome, and we are going to be grateful for the opportunities and we're gonna never be entitled, we're gonna earn it, earn it, earn it. And so that was a mantra, but I also think for me, my insatiable drive, I've done a lot of work on this lately, has been um on one side, I didn't really feel seen as a little girl. I I think, you know, I wanted to be daddy's little girl. And my parents were 21 and 22 when they had me. So we grew up together. They were also starting a business from scratch, and so there was a lot going on there. And um, and I wanted to be noticed, I wanted to be cherished is the word. And you you have kids, and I know you you were at your daughter's basketball game last night.

SPEAKER_02: 14:45

And I literally told Janich, I said, I said, hey, I really can't come on Thursday night. He's like, okay, well, you know, why? And I said, because my daughter is a basketball game. I said, I'll come Friday morning as you're and he respected it.

SPEAKER_03: 14:58

And and I know you live that way with your daughter, and I'm sure the father that you are was largely guided by the father you didn't have. And so anyway, that's a whole nother thing that I can't wait to do.

SPEAKER_02: 15:09

The emotion you have in your eyes, this is a whole other episode because you're about to put the emotion in my eyes. And I don't think we have time for that today.

SPEAKER_03: 15:15

Yeah, but it's interesting because, like, actually, you you challenged people, and you even today I knew I was gonna talk to you, and I'm like, shit, he's gonna ask me what is my burn? I'm like, what is it? And do I really want to share it? Because I've recently just found it. And it and it was this, and I've seen a psychic, I've seen therapists, I've had lots of coaches, and I've tried to figure out like what is that insatiable desire? Why is it that I will override my health? I will override, you know, paying attention to other things, I will be singularly focused, I will be dog on the bone until I fucking win because it's about winning for me. Like, what where does that come from? And it and I really think it comes most of the time before the age of 10. There's something that happened in our life where we created a belief. And the belief that happened for me young was I wanted to be cherished, I want to be daddy's little girl. And if you think about the word cherishment, like that is like the most important thing, the most love thing. And I just figured this out at 44. I didn't have this word like a month ago. And so what I, as a little person, we don't have any kind of conscious thinking. My belief was I'm not good enough the way I am. So, in order to be cherished, let alone light, there was times I didn't even feel chosen. I had two younger brothers, and I feel like I remember times where they got to go hunting with dad, and I stayed back. And I remember thinking, okay, who do I need to be to become chosen? And there started my whole journey of learning how to perform and compete and stand out, be special. And uh I remember hitting 34 years old, and I made all the money that I was supposed to have like gotten to where I would get this freedom that we're talking about. And yet I couldn't find it. I didn't have peace. I still had this like drumming thing. And it was like somebody said, Well, you don't feel deserved. And so I've I've done a lot of work over 10 years of like this kind of healing this thing because my drive isn't going away, but I'm trying to shift the fuel. Um, because if if our drive is all about external and seeking other people's approval and being special all the time, well, then it takes our power. And I really like power. Is it the kind of thing? And I want to feel powerful to create and do and feel in control of my life. And so I've really started working on getting more of an internal fuel for that, um, wanting to be special. But here's the crazy thing for me.

SPEAKER_02: 17:44

You know, when I see you and Galen on vacation, I see you with your children, and I see the energy that you bring, whether it's out on a boat or whatever it is, you take that power there.

SPEAKER_03: 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:56

So you think of the examples, the freedoms, the choices, the things you can show your kids, you know, that to me becomes part of this additional burn, which is this opportunity for them to see what hard work looks like and what hard work creates. And then you really become this example of what power really is. That's powerful. Yes. Right. So a lot of times it's remembering that when you have become that example, like how special that time is, that your kids, even if they don't tell us, they're watching. And then there's sometimes those subtle times, you know it, where like, you know, one of your daughters might say, Oh, mom, you know, that and you're saying, Oh my gosh, like you actually were listening to what I said or you were watching what I did. And that's very powerful.

SPEAKER_03: 18:37

It's so powerful to think about. I immediately had to ask you this question because a lot of what we do is motivated by what we didn't have or what we had. And the the final thought on me wanting to be chosen and wanting to be liked is I've spent my entire career teaching people how to become chosen, how to harness their own unique strengths, gifts, and talents, how to be a freaking rainmaker, how to say you have it within you, be the biggest version of you. Play full out, like live life to the fullest. So the things that drive me insane is when I meet people, don't you want to just shake them? You can just see there's like a veil over their face. They're like hiding behind something. I'm like, dude, you're you're brilliant. Like you're a gift from God. And I just want to freaking shake them. Maybe you shake them.

SPEAKER_02: 19:22

Well, there's the but there's a lot of people, they've never had somebody believe in them that way.

SPEAKER_03: 19:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:28

And that's the hard part when you see somebody, but then that becomes the beautiful part. That's why coaching is such a powerful thing. You know, it's no different on a football field, you meet that player who, you know, that might be missing a little piece, or nobody asked him the question, nobody, and then all of a sudden, wow. Or it's this executive who they've achieved this high level of success, but we want to take him to that next level of success, and you find that underlying fire, you find that underlying burn, and then you say, I got good news and bad news. What's the good news? Well, the good news is I know how we're going to take you to the next level. What's the bad news? God, you've been playing protected for far too long. Yes. And we're not doing it anymore.

SPEAKER_03: 20:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 20:05

And I think that's the piece to where when I say like the seduction of success, there's a lot of people because of the traps of their past, because of not being told I believe in you, they actually have it in them, but they only take it so far. Because they really haven't had somebody say, now let's go take all of it. Like you say, I want all of it. So they've taken a lot of it, but not all of it, until they have somebody. Because, you know, I sought my dad's approval my entire life. Never heard them say, I'm proud of you. I created this fight, but a lot of people, they don't go get that fight. You gotta help them, you gotta help them go get it.

SPEAKER_03: 20:39

So I've seen you play this fatherly coach, intense, I've got your back and I believe you, and I see you role in several men in my life, other top producers in our industry. Um has that been really intentional? Because you didn't necessarily get the belief and support, like the way you show up for these other people you coach and the men in your life?

SPEAKER_02: 21:01

I was, I'll never forget, I was 25. I was a financial advisor, and we were writing down goals. And one of the goals I wrote down, so at the time I'm single, didn't even just I didn't even know Amy, there were no kids, and I literally said, I have this vision that one day I'm gonna be the father who picks up his kids from school every day in sweats, and people are gonna be like, Does that dude have a job? And it was that big thinking that I allowed myself to go to that then I stepped into with the work to make that happen. So I I firmly believe that the life I have is a result of what I saw in my mind's eye before it happened, but then a willingness to work for. Because that's kind of that that freedom piece.

SPEAKER_03: 21:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 21:46

Right to where I'm at my kids' games, I'm at their practices. I worked my ass off. I worked off for worked a long, long time to get to that point. And I'm still working hard every single day, but I'm doing the things that I want to do. But I think sometimes people like that's a crazy vision to have. That's when I was a younger guy, but I was able to achieve that.

SPEAKER_03: 22:05

But I think you and I are both similar in this is that I didn't feel chosen. So I go out and choose people every day. Like I shine so much love into people and say, I see you. Oh, I choose you without question. Pouring into you, I'm grabbing you, I'm working with you.

SPEAKER_02: 22:21

Because of the pain I've experienced, I know most people haven't gotten that is one of the greatest joys.

unknown: 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 22:26

To just tell somebody, I love you, I believe in you, you can do so much more, or allowing that person to see, because sometimes people are going so fast, they don't realize the things they're doing that are causing them to be great. And if we repeat that behavior over and over and over again, now you're really gonna unlock. They're like, oh my gosh, I can't even believe it. And it's such a simple thing because that's how we see it. Yeah. To slow down to attack it. Most people don't see it that way. They're just they're going through emotions. And then you teach them that, like, oh my gosh, this is this is like really intentional, purposeful, meaningful discipline. And look what that creates.

SPEAKER_03: 22:59

How do you transition from fighting from survival to fighting with purpose and passion? Like that you have this rejuvenated energy every single day. Is there a a shift there in the word fight? And how do you frame that?

SPEAKER_02: 23:15

So I firmly believe that the secret of the highest performers in the world is the burn. Now, people could call it something else, right? We've been able to frame it as the burn. But when you find that, so for me, what I say, I'm 46, my mom was 38, I have all these days she never got. How could that not fuel me again then? Yeah. But I choose to connect to that. It's the alarm on my phone, I write it out every day. And so I believe everybody has that, whether it's your parents sacrificing for you at 21 and 22, like that's you're oh my god, like I will not waste that sacrifice. Yeah, it becomes the so when you think of that, that's all you know. I see you getting emotional in your eyes again, right? So it's you go there, that will motivate you every day if you connect to it, or you're sacrificing right now for somebody at home, or somebody told you you could never do a chip, you don't have it in you. And it's this almost this dark side of yeah, or you told me I couldn't, you just go watch what I did. Exactly. And I think when somebody finds that, connects to it, and harnesses it, that's really where you become great.

SPEAKER_03: 24:15

And I would like to say that your burn can shift. I mean, you had a one concrete, complete burn, but I can say genuinely that my burn in the beginning, I dropped out of college. I was that 4.0 student that hadn't that had a scholarship and then dropped out. And I was the first one going to college as a big deal. So I had a chip on my shoulder that said, I made the right choice for me. When I moved home from the Midwest Torino, they said, Are you gonna go work for daddy? You know, that chip on my shoulder is like, oh, fuck you, watch me, I'm gonna do it. So my burn, a lot of it has been, watch me. You know, I'm gonna prove you wrong, until it's like, you know, you're on your 10th year of success anymore. And I think that's where burnout could come, is when the fuel is maybe dirty. It's the wrong fuel. And what you brought out in me today was actually thinking about like, what does it mean to stack generational change and like what have my parents done to sacrifice to get us where we are? And what is my duty to bring us to the next level? And I think everybody can tap into some level of generational change and impact and legacy, and I think that's really good.