Speaker 1: 0:13

what was the burn, that fire inside of you that fueled the intentional focus and work ethic to take the game of football as high as you did?

Speaker 2: 0:21

well, two things come to mind, ben. A number one was my love for the game. That sounds a Number one was my love for the game. That sounds a little cliche, but my love for the game from the time I was a child. You know just picking up a ball and feeling that ball in my hand and you know getting it to the destination in terms of the receiver and just having fun with the game. That was huge for me.

Speaker 2: 0:40

But on a deeper level, the burn for me throughout the 16 years that I played competitively was it was for better or for worse, and this is what I write about and this is what I want to help people with now. It was my identity. It's where I got my sense of purpose. It's where I got my fulfillment. It's where I got my confidence from, not just from inside, but that was being reinforced to me for all those years. So it became who I was and I would learn many years later that actually that's not true for athletes and it certainly wasn't true for me, and I've had to go about doing the important work of figuring out who I am as a human being beyond my identity as an athlete. But that fire came from the love of the game, the love to compete, the love of not doing it by myself but sharing in the highs and lows with my teammates, and then also the pride that I felt in not just being an athlete but in being a quarterback, which means something really special to me. So talk to us.

Speaker 1: 1:39

You walk into Spartan stadium literally. I mean those years for Spartan football, you and coach Saban, you put the program back on the map, right. I mean there were some dormant, dormant years where fans were very upset. You guys get us back on the map. What's it like to walk into Spartan Stadium or to walk in these stadiums? You got 100,000 people Because I think it's important for me. 100,000 people because I think it's important for me when your identity is tied up in the roars of the fans.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Tell us what that's like and how you have to be careful with placing your identity or your value in those fans of 100,000 strong yeah, it's difficult, especially when you are done playing and that's no longer a part of your world, because the lure of it is when you're an athlete those hundred thousand seat stadiums and the national television and the cameras that are in your face as you're practicing or the reporters that are asking you questions, all this attention. That is your version of normal and so you get so accustomed to that and it really kind of deludes you. I mean, that's not a normal environment for anybody and certainly once your career is over, it's impossible to duplicate that. In many respects. There's no other job or no other place where you can go stand on a stage, unless you're the Rolling Stones and perform in front of 100,000 people on a regular basis. There isn't so to be able to deal with that and process all of that as a 18 to 22-year-old who doesn't even know themselves, I mean, you're basically a kid.

Speaker 2: 3:12

Still You've got all this adulation, you're experiencing incredible highs and there's no feeling like going onto that type of a stage and excelling and coming out of that arena with a win. But of course, just as high as that high was and I write about this in the book as well the very next week can be the worst day of your life, seemingly at that moment, because you can walk out of there embarrassed and as a loser. So those huge swings are just, they're magical, but on any given Saturday it could be tragic as well. So the ability to only handle the highs as you take them on, I think, is just half the battle. You've got to be able to really realize who you are as a person, to be able to develop the nervous system to be able to handle that environment, because it's just not something that you're going to be involved with or immersed in forever. It just can't be done.

Speaker 1: 4:08

So, bill, is there anything that you can share? You know those depressing moments, those tough moments. Now it's an empty stadium, now the career's over. Maybe walk us through as hard as it is, some of that self-talk and the things that you had to endure and how you found your strength to make it through those tough times that become dark for anybody that goes through these experiences.

Speaker 2: 4:29

Yeah, I mentioned it to you earlier before we started recording.

Speaker 2: 4:32

But when you're a big-time athlete, people that you haven't spoken with or maybe don't even know come out of the woodwork because they want to just be attracted to what's going on. They see you on TV or they know that you're winning some games and you've got some attention around you and they want to feel that with you. They want to be a part of that. And then when that huge win goes away or the career ends, you know some of those people that you thought were close to you and cared about you tend to fade away a little bit because there's nothing seemingly to be attracted to anymore. There's no career, there's no touchdown passes, there's no big wins on Saturdays. So that can be devastating because you start to think that people view you and your total worth in the world as just being related to that thing that you do. But it's just what you do, it's not who you are. So I think that's important for people to understand and I laid out a framework in my book which spells out the acronym FIRE, which you're very familiar with, and F is for fierce knowledge. That's number one. You've got to understand who you are as a human being, because that's what you were before you ever picked up a ball or stepped into this athletic arena. And most of us don't ever have to do that work because we are athletes from a very young age and we continue to do that well into adulthood if we're lucky enough. But when that ends here we are left with trying to pick up the pieces and most of us don't even understand number one, that we have to be aware of what that arena, what that athletic career gave us, that filled us up so much that now we have to go on a crusade to go and find again and figure all that stuff out. And if you're left to do that on your own, man, that's a daunting task for anybody, especially like in my case.

Speaker 2: 6:16

I spent 16 years 16 years playing competitive football. I mean, that's just, that's not one game a week, that's hours of practice, that's weight room, that's thinking, that's dreaming, that's watching my heroes and visualizing myself doing that. It's just complete immersion in that thing. And then when that's over, after 16 years or whatever your number is, you lost. You have a tendency to just drift and not understand your place in the world. You know, and you might have thoughts of where do I belong now? And, to be real, who is going to love me now and why are they going to love me? I mean, those are things that really have to be wrestled with and for a lot of us we don't have the nervous system or the internal strength and a lot of us have family and friends that can help with that.

Speaker 2: 7:06

But here's an important point that I really want everybody to understand From my perspective. I don't as close and as supportive as my parents were. I didn't feel like I could even talk to them about these things. Why? Not because they didn't love me, but because they fully did not understand the steps that I walked through for 16 years and now what it actually feels like. And nobody could understand not even really my teammates to a degree, because I was the only one who had the name, bill Burke, who played the position of quarterback, who saw the world through my eyes, who had my experiences. So I had to kind of figure that out on my own, or at least I felt that way, and that might be a personality flaw with me.

Speaker 2: 7:46

But, man, my point is it can be a very, very, very lonely journey to try and pick up the pieces after such a huge change in your life. And so then take us through the rest of the word fire I is inspired intention. Once you figure out the knowledge, you've got to make some intentions. You've got to decide the type of person that you want to be and the type of human being that you want to be. R is relentless action and then the E is epic focus. And the reason that I put those descriptors in front of those words because it's Knowledge, intention, action and focus. Those are pretty basic, boring words. Everybody hears that right, but when you tie emotion to some of these things, it really stirs up the thing inside you, that fire that can light you up and springboard you to having victory.

Speaker 2: 8:34

Outside of the arena. Eventually expect adversity. You've got to just be prepared for it, because it's going to be a lot easier to handle it if and when it does come, if you know that it's coming, instead of just hoping that everything is going to go perfectly and then you're absolutely dejected when it doesn't. Yeah, I think my last message would just be to for people your listeners, former athletes to understand that the work that you do on yourself. You can't even imagine the ripple effect that that's going to have on every other part of your life, not just your career, not just your relationships, your kids, people that don't even know you. So there's no more important work than you can do for yourself, but for those around you and for the world, than the work that you do on yourself.

Speaker 3: 9:22

You know growing up and you know just developing and maturing and finally coming to the realization that you know what my past doesn't define me. At the end of the day, there's a lot of learning lessons that came from that, and I can look at the situation. I can say, hey, poor me, and cry about it. Or I can say life didn't happen to me, it happened for me. This is actually a superpower. What it gave me is it gave me awareness, it gave me presence.

Speaker 3: 9:48

When we were stripped out of our father's house in a very good way, because the situation is very volatile Um, we landed in a burn and, uh, that created a lot of awareness at a very young age.

Speaker 3: 9:59

Um, to you know, realize that being a man of means, being a man of resources, being a man that I'm proud of, is the way, better path than going and following the path of my father. So, no, I didn't have a strong role model in my father in terms of what to look up to, but I realized, I took a step back and I realized you know what I actually was given a gift. I was given a gift of what not to be so I can reverse, engineer my life and to be the man I want to become. So that would be the way I've processed it, and it didn't happen overnight. It was a process, just like you know, winning as a process, as I've learned from one of the greatest of all times that you've had a chance to work with the goat, nick Saban. But that really struck with me because the process is how you become successful.

Speaker 1: 10:49

And for me, because the process is how you become successful and for me, the growth, maturity, that perspective has been a process and I think you provide such an amazing example for all of our listeners because when I learn more about you and I learn more about your story, you're an action taker, you're a doer. You don't allow the adversity or challenge to hold you back. You want to try new things. I remember a phone call after we met at Amberlee Lago's event. We got to have a huge shout out to Amberlee just an amazing woman, leader, human being, just a wonderful, wonderful person. That's where we had the opportunity to meet in person for the first time. And after you reached out, we have a phone call and you asked me a bunch of questions and a lot of what I shared.

Speaker 1: 11:23

We're just making sure that you didn't make the mistakes that I've made on my journey and hoping that some of the things that I've learned from some great mentors in my life were things that would resonate and help you. And you know, over the years I've gotten calls like this all the time, bryce, but what was so meaningful for me was it was probably less than 10 days later you went, you gave a speech and you send me this text message and it was that same fire and energy. I could feel the fire and energy through the text message of how excited you were. You're like. I ditched the slides. I didn't do this, I allowed my words to paint my and it just it, like it made my day.

Speaker 1: 11:59

Because, you know, for us as coaches, you're a coach just like I am. You know, as coaches, we want to share things that make a difference, but the student has to be ready to listen and to implement. And you've done that, and it was. I just wanted to share that moment because it's rare, before I talk about the leader that you are, it's rare that somebody who's had the success that you have had as a leader would even reach out and say, hey, let me ask you a few questions, ben, maybe you can help me. And that said a lot about you as well.

Speaker 3: 12:30

Oh, man, well, I appreciate that. I thank you for that. And, man, I'm attracted to success and while I've been fortunate to have a storied career and have awesome business partners, I also know that leadership is about having a white belt mentality. It's a skill set and the journey's never done. We talked about this you were just on my show about winning. It's a process and it's always about looking forward and you can never rest on your morals. So I'm smart enough to know that, hey, there's a lot of things I don't know.

Speaker 3: 12:58

And when we first met, seeing you speak, our stories are so similar. They're not the same but they rhyme, they have strong analogy to them. The way you commanded the room, I could just tell a leader, I'm a leader and I've come a long way in my speaking career. I still have a long way to go, but there were some things that I just really noticed that I wanted to lean in and get some feedback. And you know, I know what it's like to be on the giving end of coaching, and it's very frustrating when you give the knowledge and expertise and then the coaching is enacted on it. So when you gave me some pointers, a couple different adjustments that I just took and implemented in terms of my franchise system, in terms of presentation, and I saw immediate response. I just felt I had a duty, obligation, responsibility to do you a solid acknowledge you. So that's the foundation of that.

Speaker 1: 13:53

I always like to say that you can only lead somebody to the level of discipline in which you live, and it's one of the things before we met, when you first reached out, I like to see, okay, the person who they say they are is that who they are? And for you, being in the world, you're in the fitness space. You're either disciplined or you're not. There's plenty of people who own gyms who are 50 pounds overweight and they just love the business model of owning a gym, and I just I respected the voice of discipline that you spoke with and how you led, and then when I met you, I'm like this guy's in shape, he's got it together. Why is that so important to you as a leader? To be disciplined, to remain fit? Cause you've had enough success. You could put weight on. Stop working out your bit, You'd still be growing.

Speaker 3: 14:45

That would be the day the business starts to die. Then that would be the day that's my mindset At least. As the leader, you need to be able to lead by example. Moral authority by John Maxwell, who is a mentor, leadership from afar.

Speaker 3: 15:02

And I learned these principles, I guess you know, in my youth, and I made many poor decisions in terms of leaderships and learning lessons. So I'm not saying I'm perfect, far from it. In fact the opposite. A lot of the leadership qualities and characteristics I've been able to take with me is because of my learning lessons and my failures. But what I've learned is that leadership is always the problem, it's always the solution, it's the most important thing in someone's life and success.

Speaker 3: 15:25

And I have a leadership framework. My philosophy on leadership is adversity is your advantage. Take whatever happens to you Life happens for you, not to you, okay and take whatever it is and then make it better. There's some sort of gift that you can reframe, that you can take action, you can make a better situation. So that's my philosophy.

Speaker 3: 15:44

But really, ben, going back to your question to put a bow on it, there's three pillars of leadership that I follow, and the first is you need to be able to lead yourself self-leadership you can't lead anyone else unless you can lead yourself. Then, once you lead yourself, you can lead your family. And then, when you lead your family, you can lead your empire. And when you break down self-leadership? For me it first starts with fitness. If I'm the CEO of an international fitness franchise and I'm coaching and mentoring my franchise partners, my coaches and my clients and I don't look and act the part I'm inauthentic and I'm not real and Ben humbling myself, the best way that I've learned to lead is through moral authority, walking my own talk. And when you walk your own talk, then ultimately people follow and that's been a secret to my success.

Speaker 1: 16:29

That type of an improbable run. What were the things that you were talking about? What were the things that you were saying? What was it about your discipline, your burn your fire, how you showed up that caused that team to rally to do something like that? I mean, that is one of the biggest upsets in the history of Illinois high school basketball. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 4: 16:49

I think when I look back at that, you know it was with a group of guys that believed in one another, that spent a lot of time together. I remember going back our point guard, james Hahn, has an ACL injury and he decides to delay his surgery because he wanted to go on spring break and I remember being so ticked at him I'm like man no, we need you back as soon as possible because we're going to go on this run for a state championship either. There's clips of when we lost the year before and me making the promise to people in our community that we were going to get back to the state championship and win it. So all the blood, sweat and tears, the relationships that those hard conversations.

Speaker 4: 17:31

You know our coach, bob Williams, who's in the Hall of Fame man. He was a tough guy to play for, but because of that, the discipline, the willing to get uncomfortable both in conversation and in the work that you put in it allowed you to stay focused when it got hard inside the games, because for us the games were so much easier than our practices, were so much easier than the open gyms when we would have uh, we getting fights in practice because we're competing against each other so hard, and that allowed us to be prepared when it came to when the lights came on.

Speaker 1: 18:06

That's back in 2001. So up in uh, schaumburg, illinois, that's a little bit of michael jordan and how he led uh, rubbing on you guys, battling in practice and getting into fights and attacking each other to bring out your best. But you know, oftentimes that's what it takes to win. It's that competitive spirit every single day.

Speaker 4: 18:24

And for me. I've always wanted to be a part of winning cultures. I mean, it's why I have you as my coach If you've won at a high level. You were in the financial industry. I want to surround myself with people that have won and Bruce Pearl had won a Division II championship and got the Milwaukee job and I was his first recruit at Milwaukee. There was no track record of him being successful in Milwaukee. I didn't even really know. I grew up in the Chicagoland area an hour and a half away, no idea what UWM was or Milwaukee, never really heard of it. But he sold me on his championship pedigree and his passion, which he is incredible at a great communicator, and so I bought in and I want to be a part of it. Now you talk about seduction of success. You know I hope this isn't in empowering for other people.

Speaker 4: 19:14

Yeah, I was really disciplined in high school. I didn't. I didn't take a lot of time away from ball, I didn't get caught up in stuff. But when I went to college, you know I did and I was really disciplined when practice started. I was really disciplined in the film room and in my workouts and my training, but I was not disciplined off the court and my college career. Although we won and I played and I was sixth, seventh man, I didn't have the college career that I believe I could have and should have, because I was disciplined in some parts of my life, really disciplined. In a lot of the areas that people would see me right, like in the classroom, I got good grades on the court, but at night, you know, or outside, I wasn't very disciplined and it carried over into my, ultimately, my performance of what could have been with my career and so I did get seduced by success a little bit. But you know, with Coach Pearl and our relationship, he knew what was in me and that's really why I believe he gave me the opportunity to come coach with him at the University of Tennessee after I did graduate and get done playing, because he knew the type of person I was and the discipline that was in me and wanted me to be a part of his program here in Tennessee, the discipline that was in me and wanted me to be a part of his program here in Tennessee.

Speaker 4: 20:37

At this time Konzo Martin had taken over. I'd worked with him for two seasons and I told Konzo, coach, I'm getting out, I'm done coaching. I said I don't know what I'm going to do yet, but I'm getting out. And that was hard, you know, because you started with high school. And look, I don't like talking about high school, but the reality is is my entire life. My dad played collegiate basketball was really successful. My mom played college athletics my entire life. You know, basketball is what our family was seen as. You know, that was really what my identity was.

Speaker 4: 21:15

And so the thought of leaving in a town where I didn't really know anybody I've been here seven years but you know, when you're coaching you're, you're sleeping in the arena. Sometimes you're waking up early, you're getting home at night like you don't have a life outside of ball and outside of those relationships inside of the locker room. So, deciding to leave, I didn't know what I was going to do, man, and it was hard, was hard, you know I. I thought about getting into real estate. I thought about getting into medical sales, because my dad's family business was in medical sales, thought about getting in, staying in and around athletics. But the Lord and two people really Coach Pearl and my wife really encouraged me to get into the financial planning services. I was a finance major. But it was really hard because I tell people all the time, man, like I could call about anybody in town and I'm not exaggerating when I say about anybody in town we're a very successful SEC program. I could call about anybody in town when I was coaching and say hey, ben, business owner Ben, you know, president, ben, like what? This is Mark Pankratz. I'm an assistant basketball coach at the University of Tennessee. Man, I just had some time come up on my schedule to grab lunch. You want to go grab lunch tomorrow? 99% of people, if they're in town, they would have said yes.

Speaker 4: 22:30

Now you get out, you go into the financial services industry. You talk about getting your teeth punched in every day. You got people that were friends. You know how it is right. You thought you were close with you call them and it's all of a sudden like you got leprosy or something like that to you and but my identity being involved, like that's how people saw me and it meant it was hard to have to go walk away from that. And so I know what people are dealing with. Like when your business isn't going well, do you get down If you're done playing? I got professional advice. Like when you're done playing, your identity's gone, like so much of us wrap our identity up in what we do or who we are and how much money we make, and if we do, I'm telling you it's going to be empty. You got to find one, whether it's your faith or the other things, that you can tie it to that prizefighter day, that you can tie your identity to that, because that's only what's going to, that, that's not going to change, that's not going nowhere.

Speaker 4: 23:33

And and I just encourage people um, you can't do it alone, uh, and you need people around you. You need people that maybe their fight's a little bit different, but they're fighting to to grow and fighting to be better and and and it is. It can be lonely when you're fighting to do things that are different and to stand out for the right ways. Um, but man, man, do our kids need people to stand up for them? Does our country need people that are willing to stand up and be different? Do our businesses? Yes, everybody. And it takes courage, it takes getting uncomfortable, but now more than ever do people need those that are willing to stand up and get uncomfortable for the right things? And I just encourage people to stand up and get uncomfortable for the right things and I just encourage people to stand up and do it and because there's people that are watching, even if they don't say something to you, you can be having that impact just by the way that you show up every day.

Speaker 1: 24:27

And I know you do not do things for money, you do not do things for recognition. So I'm going to highlight one more thing about you. This is really more so to be an example for somebody who might be where you were when you heard those words going down Neyland Avenue and your daughter looked up and said Daddy, there's your home. I want individuals who have maybe been struggling, maybe been second-guessing am I doing what I want to do? Think about struggling, maybe been second guessing. Am I doing what I want to do?

Speaker 1: 24:56

Think about where we've taken you in this conversation. You started with somebody who loved basketball so much so that went on an improbable run, goes and plays collegiate basketball goes, becomes a collegiate coach, then transitions to being a very, very, very highly successful financial advisor and leader in financial services, and now he still gets to coach. Now the University of Tennessee has him on TV and doing radio. All the things he's always loved are still a part of his life. So just because you maybe close the door on being a coach doesn't mean you're closing the door on the things that you love, and God has an amazing way of opening all of the doors for you to be able to live a life that includes everything, everything that you love you.